Of course! Sorry for missing this comment for so long!
I also use KA flour for my pasta madre. I use KA flour for the daily feedings and the warm refreshment. Honestly, there are so many individual factors to consider, I would definitely focus more on baking with the PM to establish what type of results you get with each type of pasta madre. When your PM is x2.8, how does the first dough and second dough behave?
I will say from experience, if my PM didn't triple the length of the final proofing stage takes much longer than when it does triple. If the PM is sticky at the end of warm refreshment, I don't use it at all. Last thing, KA flour means a faster active PM, so the warm refreshments move faster, which then means the first dough moves faster, and so does the proofing.
Olga, using your daily maintenance schedule, can you go directly to doing the final 3 warm refresh and mixing of the first note? Or do you have to do 1 warm and 1 cool refresh per day for several days before the LM is ready for baking?
Hi Selena! You answered your own question 🙌 with my feeding schedule and daily feedings you don’t need to do all the extra refreshments (this is what works for me). I go from overnight or one cold feeding to one warm refreshment and on to the first dough! That’s it.
Hi Selena, of course let me try to explain it a little more clearly. Let’s assume you have been following my daily feeding schedule.
The day I want to mix my first dough, I do one warm refreshment at 7pm, ratio for warm refreshment is 1:1:.40. I put it in the proofer for 3 to 3.5 hours. Once it’s ripe, I start mixing my first dough. Around 11pm. That’s it.
Does that make sense? Please feel free to ask follow up questions.
Wonderful! It sounds like you should be ready to go! Fingers crossed and remember anything you bake will be absolutely delicious. Let me know how it goes.
olga, how do you transition from daily maintenance to baking? specifically, if you are doing cooler refresh in the evening at 8 pm, how do you transition to doing warm refresh at 5 or 6 am in the morning? do you shorten the cooler refresh to 14 hours over several days?
Yes! You can also do that. You can shorten the overnight/cold feeding and start doing warm refreshment however many you want before mixing the first dough. I have done this in the past but don’t anymore since the below method is the preferred method for me. Try both out and see how you like it, and report back!
I have done daily refresh per your method for a week. The PM was growing very nicely.
I tried out going straight to three refreshes and I can’t get to 3x of the volume increase. Can you please give me some guidance on how to boost the yeast? Do 2x?
Thanks.
(Still waiting for your basque cheesecake cookbook❤️)
Thank you so much Selena! The ebook is so close to being done. We are almost at the photographing phase. I originally was thinking of not doing photos but I was to add some to the process section.
That’s wonderful to hear! Why don’t you try doing only 1 or max 2 warm refreshments? Also are you doing the warm refreshment at the 1:1 ratio? Some even do 1:1.1 (a little more LM than flour). Also make sure you are keeping it at those high temperatures for the warm refreshment. Have you tried mixing the first dough?
Sorry to bug you again. If you do one refresh before mixing the dough, what are the sensory cues or measurements that you look for, to ascertain that the LM is ready for mixing? What do you do if you think the LM is not ready. Thanks.
If the LM is not ready, I wait until the 4 hour mark and if it hasn’t tripled by then I don’t mix the first dough. As far as cues it’s a little tricky. Avoid using a sluggish LM, I do think it’s worth mixing one first dough with a more sluggish LM maybe twice so see what happens to the first dough but otherwise it’s not worth the ingredients since it won’t be a good batch. Avoid using an LM that swells overly sour or is sticky. That’s usually a sign of things having gone wrong. It should triple in volume and look strong if that makes sense. I’ll need to see if I can find some visuals. The internal gluten structure should be intact and not compromised, meaning the inside of the LM is starting to collapse or degrade. I guess I go through a method of elimination, if it doesn’t have those visual and sensory warning cues it’s safe to proceed.
Also in full transparency just so you know. Each LM has its own characteristics of when it’s ready. Since all of us are using dif ingredients, live in different climates/environments, each LM will have its own good and bad characteristics. So those are the things that help me tell if the LM is behaving properly.
This made me tear up! I’m honored 😭 I will be the first to know about the ebook as soon as it’s available. I will make a post with some progress updates too.
Thank you, Olga. I really appreciate you answering my questions.
My LM has rarely grown 3x. The best I have done is 2.8, which I would count as a win already. 😂
I have baked a few times using Natalya’s recipe. The crumb is not bad but the inside is very moist.
The volume is not as big, it is probably due to the LM strength as well as my shaping technique with wet dough.
Talking about wet dough, I think it may have something to do with the LM again 😂
I use KA flour. You don’t think the volume o the LM is a constraint of the flour, right ?
Finally, I totally understand that the character of LM is individualistic because of all the reasons you listed.
Regards, Selena
Hi Selena,
Of course! Sorry for missing this comment for so long!
I also use KA flour for my pasta madre. I use KA flour for the daily feedings and the warm refreshment. Honestly, there are so many individual factors to consider, I would definitely focus more on baking with the PM to establish what type of results you get with each type of pasta madre. When your PM is x2.8, how does the first dough and second dough behave?
I will say from experience, if my PM didn't triple the length of the final proofing stage takes much longer than when it does triple. If the PM is sticky at the end of warm refreshment, I don't use it at all. Last thing, KA flour means a faster active PM, so the warm refreshments move faster, which then means the first dough moves faster, and so does the proofing.
Hope you are doing well!
Thanks, Olga.
do you only look for tripling at the end of the warm refresh, or both maintenance cool refresh and warm refresh?
If the PM doesn’t triple, what can you do about it? Do you change the hydration or the ratio?
Thanks.
Selena
Olga, using your daily maintenance schedule, can you go directly to doing the final 3 warm refresh and mixing of the first note? Or do you have to do 1 warm and 1 cool refresh per day for several days before the LM is ready for baking?
Hi Selena! You answered your own question 🙌 with my feeding schedule and daily feedings you don’t need to do all the extra refreshments (this is what works for me). I go from overnight or one cold feeding to one warm refreshment and on to the first dough! That’s it.
Hi Olga,
Can you please explain your answer? Do you mean you do daily maintenance of 1.5x 16C, then on baking day, you do one refresh and mix the first dough?
Thanks.
Selena
Hi Selena, of course let me try to explain it a little more clearly. Let’s assume you have been following my daily feeding schedule.
The day I want to mix my first dough, I do one warm refreshment at 7pm, ratio for warm refreshment is 1:1:.40. I put it in the proofer for 3 to 3.5 hours. Once it’s ripe, I start mixing my first dough. Around 11pm. That’s it.
Does that make sense? Please feel free to ask follow up questions.
Quick typo fix the correct ratio is 1:1:.45 not .40!
Yes. I am clear now. It will be so great to go straight to mixing the dough after 1 warm refresh.
I notice that the volume increase of my first warm refresh is robust, but then it decreases with every warm refresh I do.
Thanks and I will try it.
Xoxo
Selena
Wonderful! It sounds like you should be ready to go! Fingers crossed and remember anything you bake will be absolutely delicious. Let me know how it goes.
olga, how do you transition from daily maintenance to baking? specifically, if you are doing cooler refresh in the evening at 8 pm, how do you transition to doing warm refresh at 5 or 6 am in the morning? do you shorten the cooler refresh to 14 hours over several days?
Yes! You can also do that. You can shorten the overnight/cold feeding and start doing warm refreshment however many you want before mixing the first dough. I have done this in the past but don’t anymore since the below method is the preferred method for me. Try both out and see how you like it, and report back!
Hi Olga,
I have done daily refresh per your method for a week. The PM was growing very nicely.
I tried out going straight to three refreshes and I can’t get to 3x of the volume increase. Can you please give me some guidance on how to boost the yeast? Do 2x?
Thanks.
(Still waiting for your basque cheesecake cookbook❤️)
Selena
Thank you so much Selena! The ebook is so close to being done. We are almost at the photographing phase. I originally was thinking of not doing photos but I was to add some to the process section.
That’s wonderful to hear! Why don’t you try doing only 1 or max 2 warm refreshments? Also are you doing the warm refreshment at the 1:1 ratio? Some even do 1:1.1 (a little more LM than flour). Also make sure you are keeping it at those high temperatures for the warm refreshment. Have you tried mixing the first dough?
Olga,
Sorry to bug you again. If you do one refresh before mixing the dough, what are the sensory cues or measurements that you look for, to ascertain that the LM is ready for mixing? What do you do if you think the LM is not ready. Thanks.
Selena
If the LM is not ready, I wait until the 4 hour mark and if it hasn’t tripled by then I don’t mix the first dough. As far as cues it’s a little tricky. Avoid using a sluggish LM, I do think it’s worth mixing one first dough with a more sluggish LM maybe twice so see what happens to the first dough but otherwise it’s not worth the ingredients since it won’t be a good batch. Avoid using an LM that swells overly sour or is sticky. That’s usually a sign of things having gone wrong. It should triple in volume and look strong if that makes sense. I’ll need to see if I can find some visuals. The internal gluten structure should be intact and not compromised, meaning the inside of the LM is starting to collapse or degrade. I guess I go through a method of elimination, if it doesn’t have those visual and sensory warning cues it’s safe to proceed.
Also in full transparency just so you know. Each LM has its own characteristics of when it’s ready. Since all of us are using dif ingredients, live in different climates/environments, each LM will have its own good and bad characteristics. So those are the things that help me tell if the LM is behaving properly.
I am rely looking forward to your ebook. ❤️
I am on another method now. When I am doe with that, I I’ll go back to the PM which I fondly named “Olga” 💕
This made me tear up! I’m honored 😭 I will be the first to know about the ebook as soon as it’s available. I will make a post with some progress updates too.